Inside Insecure With Amy Aniobi and Ben Cory Jones
By Allie Waxman
At a panel discussion in Provincetown, Massachusetts, the Insecure writers opened up about their experiences on the show and in the entertainment industry as a whole. James Powell of The Tenth Magazine moderated the conversation, which has been edited for clarity, below.
James Powell: Before we go into talking about the process of the show, what's important to me is who are these writers? Where did you all come from before you started getting onto this project, because you did exist before that.
Ben Cory Jones: I've always been a writer, whether I knew it or not in some capacity. I was raised by a single father in Memphis, Tennessee, so books were my babysitter. TV was my babysitter. My dad is an amazing dad but he worked two jobs and dad was also my baseball coach and basketball coach and football coach and so I had a lot of free time to just explore worlds as a kid. I've always been drawn to the written word specifically, ‘cause it just did something to me. Getting over my trauma as a child, losing my mother, and trying to find escapism. I found that more so in the written word — books and children’s books. That’s sort of where the germ of it is and I think that’s what made me who I am. It unlocked my imagination, it unlocked my creativity. It's funny because I remember there was this… Do you guys remember the Disney magazine? It was like this really small magazine, and you could color in it, write in it. I would steal my dad’s credit card out of his wallet to subscribe to it. It's not that my dad wouldn’t pay for it but I was just like let me not bother him with my like, Disney whatever.
Amy Aniobi: What a nerd activity to do.
Ben Cory Jones: When I look back on like moments like that in my childhood growing up, I’m like oh, I've always been like this. I've always been this person that just sought out creativity. Then I went to Morehouse undergrad, then I got a degree in literature. My father made me get another degree in finance, which I’m thankful that he did, because before I became a writer-producer I had a career on Wall Street. So I did investment banking for one year in New York City at Credit Suisse First Boston, and then I convinced them somehow to — I didn’t want to do finance ‘cause that’s awful and I hated myself, but I was making a lot of money — but I was like can I just like run communications for the bank or something? They let me do it, you know. And so then it was sort of like getting out of writing and communications and then coming back to it, which I think is always a journey coming back to these things that are really at your core, you know? Long story short, I did the Wall Street thing. The market crashed, you know, like crashed down on all of us in 2008. I was at Credit Suisse. I had a friend who worked at Bear Stearns and he literally walked up to work one day and the doors were just locked. Like no email, no nothing, and so we were like, we should figure this sh*t out, you know? It was at that point I went to NYU, ‘cause they had continuing education classes. I was like I should probably take some classes to learn some more skills because I probably am not gonna have a job pretty soon. And I saw they had a class for TV writing. I was like TV writing? People do that? Like that’s a thing? And then you learn how much money they make, I’m like okay, it's a really good thing, you know? So that was how it all started for me, taking that class and then my professor was like you're a horrible screenwriter, but you have something core in you that is imaginative, that is emotional, which I attribute to my upbringing and she was like — her name is Tami Yellin — she was a long-time writer on Seinfeld who’s my first writing instructor. She was like well you gotta move to L.A. if you want to do this, and then I just moved to L.A. and you know, met Amy very early in my matriculation in L.A. We were just young, hungry, broke and black. It was hard. There were no Insecures and Queen Sugars and Atlantas on the air, and we were still trying to break into the white world of writing for TV shows. But we knew we wanted to write on shows like the shows we watch, like Grey’s Anatomy. We would share stories and information all the time and then we got to work together on this amazing show, which changed all of our lives, I think.
Amy Aniobi: It's interesting. I feel like I have a pretty similar origin story to Ben. I’m Nigerian, and in Nigerian culture, we’re storytellers. Those letters where they say, “Send us your credit card information”: Storytellers. We’re really great storytellers. It's in our blood. And it's in our bank accounts. When I was growing up, I remember April Fool’s Day would come around and every year I’d be like, what's the big April Fool’s story that I’m gonna tell my dad to try and get out of school? I’d be like, “I threw up and I wet my pants at the same time, come pick me up.” And he’d be like, “what?” I was six or seven years old and I just had that gene in me, and I do think that latchkey kids make for really great storytellers, especially in the TV world, because TV was my babysitter. I had two brothers. They were both knuckleheads, and I sometimes would escape from their antics by watching the block of television shows that would do re-runs in the evenings every night, and those Friday night shows on ABC. I remember I so didn’t understand how television worked and came from so far outside the world; I thought that Boy Meets World was like a documentary. I was like, “They're just following this kid around school? Why can't they follow me?” I didn’t get it, and I had friends who were like, “No it's written. People write what he says.” And I was like, “what?” I didn’t really get it. But as I got older and went to college, I took a screenwriting class spring quarter of my senior year just as something fun to do. I had come from four years of college waiting until the last minute to write every essay, and still getting good grades, and teachers being like, “You're really good at this.” I’m like cool yeah, but what am I gonna do for money though? And then in the screenwriting class, our teacher said same thing; if you're actually really good at this you can make a living off of it. I had never considered it, 'cause in Nigerian culture, you're a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or a disappointment.
James Powell: Right, right.
Amy Aniobi: And I was over here lying to my parents saying I might go to law school. They're like, “We ain't seen no LSATs,” and I was like, “About that…” So I moved abroad and left the country. I was running from mom and dad. I was abroad and writing in my spare time and just fell in love with it, and I was like, this is the type of writing I want to do. And then I moved to L.A. and was working in reality TV. The market crashed. When I was in reality TV — surprise, reality TV’s not real. So you're coming up with stories all day. You're coming up with stories all day for these characters, and that was my favorite part of my job, and my boss would be like, “Come up with five stories,” and I’d turn in twenty by the end of the day, and he was just like, “We don’t need these.” But then as the market was crashing, I was like what do I want to do next? There's no growth at E. And one of my friends... again, sometimes people recognize your talent when you don’t recognize it yourself. (Pay attention to the things that people are saying you're good at.) I had a friend who was just like, “You write a lot. Nobody’s paying you to do this and you're always writing. Have you considered grad school?” I was like, “That’s so expensive.” And he said there are these things called loans. And I was like, “Oh yeah, I’ll just get loans.” I don’t know why, it unlocked something and I took a continuing education course at UCLA, fell in love with it, and then ended up enrolling in their MFA program. Of that program there were twenty-four students. Ten who wanted to do TV, and two wanted to do comedy. I was one of two black people. The other girl who wanted to do comedy is now one of my best friends. Her name’s Lisa McQuillan, she works on Grown-ish. And she and I were the only two black funny girls in our program, and I was like I’m just gonna lean into this. Everyone kept on being like, “Where’s your screenplay,” and I was like, “I really like TV though.” And they're like, “Oh, so you want to be Shonda.” And I was like, “No, I kind of want to be Amy Aniobi.” I just kept at it. Insane thing is that you kind of had to work your way up through that white world and figure out where’s your place, how you prove to them that you can write like middle-aged white guys hating their wives, and it's like well, if you can write that, what else can you write? And then you lean into your voice. And then eventually like it's a war of attrition if you stay at it. And you keep improving your craft. It works out.
James Powell: That’s incredible. Now we’ve seen a transition, right, of what's going on because more than ever we are seeing more people of color tell their own stories. Indigenous people or people who identify as First Nation talking about their narratives, people talking about things in black history in this country are all over the world. The storytellers are the people that look like them and that’s such a unique quality. I want to talk about two things, one is what is the power impact of someone being able to tell their own story? And the second is, are you proud of the work that you're doing and you're hoping that it's impacting younger people to be able to say, “look, I’m, I want to do this, and this is powerful?
Amy Aniobi: I kind of want to answer your second question first, about are you proud of the work you're doing. This is so random, but I remember the morning after the election two years ago, I woke up miserable like so many of us did and I remember thinking first, how does Hillary Clinton feel right now, and then I remember thinking how does Shonda Rhimes feel? Because she spent her career, which is what I am doing as well, trying to promote inclusivity, and trying to promote stories that show that black women are valid, that we deserve our space, that people who are different are worthy. And I thought there's part of you that wakes up on a morning like that and you're like why the f*ck have I been doing this? Because it's not worth anything if it didn’t change any minds. White women watched those shows and turned around and voted for Trump. So it's like I kept thinking as a storyteller, as one of the most powerful storytellers, how could she feel? And in that moment I was like “well, if you have one talent, you have to lean into your talent, and you have to think hey look, I can't change everyone, but who can I change?” And I think so often in our industry we’re taught to like look for accolades like awards and, you know, critical acclaim and stuff, but to be honest it's the DMs that you get from one kid in a tiny town who’s like I saw your show and I've never seen a black gay guy on TV before, like oh my God, you know, and it's those little messages that you see and you're like, “okay I changed one,” and sometimes you have to hold on to those tighter than the outward stuff, and that’s what makes you proud of the work you're creating, even if it doesn’t feel as big as you want it to every moment.
Ben Cory Jones: Yeah, I totally agree and I think maybe to answer the first part of the question, I mean, Issa Rae is like queen mother, you know what I mean?
Amy Aniobi: She's phenomenal.
Ben Cory Jones: And I say that, I mean she ain't sh*t, but… No I mean we all joke facetiously like that, but, but what I will say is that Issa Rae plus YouTube plus the ability for her to tell her story very early on with Awkward Black Girl, which Amy was a writer on, that inspired me. Here she was, this, you know, black girl, natural hair, telling her story about the, the racial economy at her job and being very unapologetic about it. I think there was something so empowering to your point, empowering and liberating about knowing that your story just matters, you know? And I say all the time, as TV writers we’re always trying to think about how can we reach the most people, but the universal is in the specific, you know. The more specific I can tell my story, the more granular I can talk about being a black gay man from the south, who is DL, and all this, the more I can, connect to other people who have that same experience. I’m really glad at this point that more people are wanting to be storytellers. I have a hashtag, not to brag but whatever. It's called “writers are sexy too.” I do that to give a reason as to why I take shirtless selfies, but the other reason why I do it is because I want the people to know that being a writer is sexy. Being an actor is sexy, being a director is sexy, being a producer is sexy, but being a writer is sexy as f*ck, especially in television.
James Powell: Right.
Ben Cory Jones: Because like you just said, we are the ones who are in the writers’ room for six months before things get filmed. We’re arguing, we’re debating, we’re figuring out what the whole show should be. We’re getting mad at each other. We’re doing all these things and for a long time the veil was never lifted on what our process was. I’m always trying to tell more black people, more people of color, more women, anyone: Be a storyteller. Have control of your narrative. And know that your story matters because there's somebody else that needs it. I remember growing up I always wished there were books I could have read about how to cope with loss of a parent. And I wish there were a summer camp for kids who had lost parents that I would go to. I was searching for a community — which is what you guys create with the magazine — I didn’t know it at the time but I was searching for this community of like-minded people. I was waiting for someone to maybe speak my life into a story so that I could be like, “Oh, I can see myself. I’ll be okay,” you know what I mean? That’s sort of the power of it.
Amy Aniobi: Yeah, ‘cause if you don’t see yourself represented, you don’t actually learn that you matter.
James Powell: You guys sort of, you hit on such a strong point because we’re all probably had our, our experience working in these large corporations where you go in and you are the only other black person. When they see you in the hall, they’re like, oh I don’t really see you but I see you. One thing I always tell people is working at The Tenth Magazine, we have our challenges and it is rigorous, and we do yell and fight a lot all the time, but it's refreshing because it's from a good place ‘cause these people are your family and they're part of your community. And I will never let that go. But I want you to also talk a little bit more about that because it must be refreshing to be in a room with people where if they are criticizing you, it has nothing to do with your race. It has nothing to do with your sexual identity. It is basically they just want to see the best for you and the best for the collective, so could you talk a little bit how inspiring that is, and where that doctrine comes from and how Issa helps to make sure that goes forward?
Ben Cory Jones: The writer’s room is a sacred place. It is like, the greatest place on earth if you do what we do. And Issa Rae and Prentice Penny, our showrunner, they have to corral the creativity, because basically you have all these smart, funny people in a room, and this sh*t can be chaotic if you don’t have a way to harness the best parts of everybody. I liken what we do so much to sports. I use sports analogies a lot, but I mean there’s the head coach and he has to know how to get a three point out of me, get the dunk out of her. You have to assemble a great team. You have to cast a great team. You're casting five men and women on the basketball court. Everybody has different strengths. Before I came to Insecure I wrote on a show called Hand of God for Amazon. I wrote on a show called Chasing Life for ABC Family which is now Freeform — I was also a writers’ assistant on a bunch of shows, like eight different shows. I was usually the only black person in the room. Usually the only gay person of color in the room. On Hand of God I was mentored by another black man writer which was really awesome, but when I got to Insecure, our diversity hires are white people.
Amy Aniobi: Yeah, we have two white writers in our posse.
Ben Cory Jones:: Which is awesome, you know what I mean?
Amy Aniobi: He hired one, he's like I never want anyone to have the experience of being the only one, so I’ll hire a second one. But our show, we have four gay writers. We have seven black women. We have a queer white woman, a straight white man, Prentice who’s straight. It is a diverse room even though it is predominantly black, but we still argue. I've seen shows where they're like, “Oh we can only have one because we only have one black character so we only need one black writer,” and it's like what? Why are there five men in here named John? I’m like get out of here. On our show, you know that diversity of thought doesn’t come from color only.
James Powell: Right.
Amy Aniobi: So we find spaces to agree, we find spaces to disagree. We fight. But I also think it's amazing that our bosses... I think one of the best things they do is they validate our voices. I have had really great showrunners in the past, but very often with white shows you don’t feel that from everyone in the room. On this show, everyone knows everyone is valid, so it's like when you come up with a thought or opinion, if somebody goes, “I don’t know,” it's not because they don’t trust your black voice.
Ben Cory Jones: Right, right, right.
AMY ANIOBI: We’re all black, so what are you not trusting? It's top-down. Prentice is so good at hearing everyone. Better than me. There are times in the room where I’ll go, “Yeah I don’t know if that’s gonna work,” and Prentice will be like, “Well in a vacuum we don’t know, Amy, so we should hear it.” He's so good at that and when you have a boss who’s so warm and embrasive like that, then... Embrasive, is that a word? I don’t know.
Ben Cory Jones: Yeah, it is now.
James Powell: Yeah, we can make up our own words.
Amy Aniobi: Great. Thank you, thank you. Writers: We invent words.
James Powell: As an editor I approve that.
Amy Aniobi: Thank you. Thank you. We need you as well. So yeah, we have a boss who’s embrasive like that, then everyone else on the staff echoes that mentality, ‘cause they know if they're not that way, then actually they're hurting the productivity.
James Powell: No that, that’s, that’s really interesting and it's a great segue into my next question. Let’s not beat around the bush here, this is not the most diverse space, right? But demographically, there are a lot of queer people, but the majority of them are white, and so when you're presenting work in these spaces, you know, we’re bringing our culture here and we have an intention to not celebrate diversity in this homogeneous space but also to make sure that our community is getting something out of it and they're here and they're seeing themselves on the wall. But we do know for a fact that the audience that watches Insecure is a multicultural audience.
Amy Aniobi: Yes, but predominantly white.
James Powell: Yeah, predominantly white.
Amy Aniobi: You know, because HBO is predominantly white.
James Powell: Right. And so with having this unapologetically black show, what do you want a person that is not of African descent to get out of watching that show? Do you want them to learn anything more about the experience?
Ben Cory Jones: I don’t know if we’re ever really said the word unapologetically black in our room, but I know it's a thing that we all know. What we’re so focused on, on Insecure specifically is the emotional lives of these characters. And whoever you are, whatever color you are, you can understand break up to make up.
James Powell: Right.
Ben Cory Jones: You can understand fights with your friends. You can understand pressure from your mother to be married. We know we’re black and we don’t have to hang a hat on it, and we don’t have to talk about it and do it, ‘cause our, Insecure is about a show about these men and women living. As writers and producers, what we’re really, really focused on is what Issa always says: What's the real version of this? What's the real version of that? How would a character really say this? How would they really talk? And I think that is a thing that I want people to take away from it is that our emotional lives are the same as everyone else’s. We're all kind of going through the same sh*t, you know what I mean? And when we really got into our room the first couple of weeks and we were really asking the big questions about what is Issa’s journey? Who is she? Where is she going? What does she want? Asking those big questions that Prentice and Issa are always pushing us and challenging us to answer, like what is her arc? Like what is she feeling? That is how we touch people the most; it is the core thing we’re all experiencing, loss, love, anger, you know, commitment and stuff like that.
AMY ANIOBI: Issa said it best like when the show first was sold, one of her biggest influences in creating Awkward Black Girl, the original web series, was Curb Your Enthusiasm. And she was like there's hella Jewish sh*t in that show that I don’t understand. I’ll look it up. But I still love the show. And she's like some of those jokes are not for me and that’s okay. I just still understand as a whole that it's about a real emotion, Larry David being annoyed at everything.
James Powell: Right. Right.
Amy Aniobi: In a similar way she was like, there are jokes on the show that aren't for white audiences, and that’s fine. But is the emotional core of it, is what Issa’s going through, is her arc universal? Even if this specific joke about the In My Feelings challenge, like is that specific joke something that everyone’s gonna understand? Probably not. But at the core of it is, is the emotion true and is the other stuff? Look it up if you're interested but also it's okay if it's not all for you.
James Powell: I appreciate that response. Moving into some fun stuff. Since you all are writing this and, and art reflects life, how much of the episodes that you all were involved with writing reflect what was going on with you personally at the time? Can we watch those and like know what Ben and Amy are insecure about?
Ben Cory Jones: You know, we pour our guts on that writer’s room table.
James Powell: Yeah.
Ben Cory Jones: And again, it's a safe space that’s created by our bosses that like, some days I just go in there and be like, “He didn’t call me back y’all,” and we go into our personal lives.
Amy Aniobi: Yeah.
Ben Cory Jones: I’m so proud of everything about this show. The moment that I hit a writing apex, personally, and then when I connected it to the work that I do in my life is what happened in first season, because as a queer man, it was important for me to deal with that in a way in this show. And we had a character in the episode that I co-wrote with Regina Hicks that the black male character says, “You know, I had, I had a sexual experience with another guy but I’m not gay,” that to me was a moment, I was like mwah, I love it. And then, the subsequent conversation that the women have about it, and the line where they were calling Molly to task, like, “why can't you date a black man who just said he had one experience with a man?”
James Powell: Right, right.
Ben Cory Jones: You know? Like you touch a dick and all of a sudden you’re gay immediately? Like no, it's not what it is.
James Powell: Right.
Ben Cory Jones: But then Molly says, “Well I want my man to be a man,” and even that line alone still just cuts me to my core. Not in a bad way but in like that’s real. I feel like we were let in on a real conversation that is really happening.
Amy Aniobi: Well you know, what's so interesting is I remember it was day one or two of our writers’ room retreat of first season that Issa was just like, “Hey y’all, if you had been with a guy who had been with another guy… Would you stay with him?” And our room had differing opinions. And then Ben, soapbox Ben was like, “Well why does one dick make him gay? Women can go back and forth, why can't men go back and forth? This is my truth, this is something I fight for.” We were just like, “Oh that’s the show.” It's when we get into those conversations where there's gray that we get really excited. We did a blind vote I think. Didn’t we do like a heads up or something...
Ben Cory Jones: We did, yes.
Amy Aniobi: Would you go out with a guy who had been with a guy? And it was like well, who was he in the relationship and are they still together?
Ben Cory Jones: Oh my God, yeah.
Amy Aniobi: It was like, why are there so many questions? Why do we as black people... I don’t even think it made in the script but it was like, as a white guy you just chalk it up to Coachella and you move on. But a black guy, there are all these questions. It's so prevalent, and every time we kept returning to that conversation it was so funny ‘cause it was so early that it came up and it kept on cropping back up.
Ben Cory Jones: I went into Insecure with an agenda to explore black male sexuality, ‘cause it does not get explored at all. Black men are supposed to be this and that or we’re super-straight or super-gay, there's no in-between for us. That’s a problem for me. Any time I write or work on shows, I’m like how can I address this via the lens of these characters that makes sense in the world? And so Amy’s right, that was a moment where the discussion was just palpable. It was like everyone had an opinion about it. If we have this kind of discussion about it in the room, what's the audience gonna feel like? I remember I went back home to Memphis for a Christmas party two years ago one of my friends was hosting and it was second season, they were like oh, Ben writes on Insecure. The whole Christmas party turned into a debate between Issa and Lawrence. You know, like they were in their feelings about it. I think that is a testament to our agenda when we write this show, which is to not tell you which side of the argument to be on, but just to present the argument.
James Powell: Before I open it up to the audience I have a couple more questions. One thing I’m really interested in is process. You have spoken a lot about that so far. But I am curious to know when an artist knows... when you know you have a finished story, a finished product. Like with painters, when are you done painting? With photographers when you’ve done enough editing. When do you know that this story is complete? What's that moment for you and how do you get yourself? So what is that moment where you're like this is great?
Amy Aniobi: Well, the quick answer is when the deadline hits. It's like oh damn, I gotta turn this in. I remember someone saying very early in my career that a great screenplay or story is never finished, it's simply abandoned. And I feel like that’s true. I feel like you never know, and that’s why it's so interesting. I know that you guys got to see the premiere of Season 3 last night, and it's one of those things that you are so...I don’t know what the word is, like cramped up, like waiting for reaction, ‘cause there are always gonna be things. Like you're on set and there's a joke that you heard a way in your head and it's delivered differently and you're like, “Okay, that works too,” and then you see it in the edit and you're like, “Oh I should have said something.” And then you're like, “I don't know if it's gonna land.” You never really know. And then sometimes feedback comes and you don’t trust the feedback. You're like they’re just saying that. A random aside, but when Ben was saying he encourages people to be storytellers, I also like to encourage people to realize that storytelling is in every aspect of the job of entertainment. You are a storyteller as an exec, you're a storyteller as a music editor, you're a storyteller as a DP. I think sometimes people are like storytellers are writers and they go that way, but maybe if you don’t know how to write that doesn’t mean you can't be a storyteller, so I wanted to say that real quick. But yeah, I feel like there are times where you give yourself up to the critics and you just wait. Sometimes you don’t know even when the accolades come in, you still don’t, you know.
Ben Cory Jones: I remember when we had our first table read, was it for the pilot or episode two at HBO?
Amy Aniobi: They both were, yeah.
Ben Cory Jones: Oh yeah we did them the same day, and to me, I’m a writer that lives and dies by the table read process, or like the performance process of it, ‘cause I always feel like I don’t know what the script is until I hear it out loud. I could be crazy, but I have had moments where, and even I've had moments in Insecure and shows that I've worked on, where once all the alchemy of it all comes together, the writing, the script is abandoned for the moment, the director’s there, the actors are there, the energy in the room is good and actors just kind of sit down and they read these words, I've had like out of body experiences when that happens. When a script is singing almost, that’s when I’m just like ooh. Like when the actors are getting it, the audience is laughing at the right places. When,as a writer, we’re not down taking notes and we’re just like watching and listening, when we can abandon it, or when we can be in the moment too. Our Insecure table reads are just dope, just because the actors are great.
Amy Aniobi: They always bring it. That’s so great.
Ben Cory Jones: They always bring it. We spend a lot of time with our scripts. Scripts are king. We like put ‘em on, on a screen. We do edits as a room, we punch jokes, the best joke wins. Nobody’s pressured about it, because we all want to make a great show at the end of the day, and then we get to those table reads. ‘Cause being on set is a lot of moving parts, but when we really can hear it out loud and digest it all is our table read process.
James Powell: How does a writer’s role change once you are on set, if you're not necessarily editing the story? Are you a part of the creative direction on set? How does that evolve?
Amy Aniobi: Yeah, I actually think that’s why I got into television, why I gravitated to TV more than features, ‘cause in features the director is the boss, so as a writer you give your script to the director and then they take it. In television, the writer is the boss, so you get to set and a director’s job is to carry out your vision, because you were there from the beginning of the show and you were the one who knows the arc of the characters. As they’re shooting out of order they're like well, tell me, what is this character feeling right here?
James Powell: Right.
Amy Aniobi: As a Type A Nigerian, I was like, “I want to do that.” I want control. Being on set can be kind of confusing because things are out of order and sometimes you feel it, like you got it, you got the take and then sometimes you didn’t, and you're just sort of like, “I’m not really sure how to make it happen,” and that’s why your director is key in getting them to give your notes to an actor. But I find that that’s the process for me, like I do love the table read, but for me, being on set and seeing it on its feet, that’s when I start to get more comfortable. And I find that the things that I feel like didn’t work at the table read very often don’t work on stage. You know, it's like you’ll see it then you’ll go, “Ooh, I had a feeling,” and then you'll be quickly rewriting in a corner. It's like, maybe this’ll make it flow a little better. But I love seeing our actors move and like carry it out. There's still this magic to watching them move around and say your words, you know? And there are times where we’ll do alts on set, like we’re always pressed ‘cause on our show, we do like five days of shooting out at location, one day on stages, and so we’re, we’re moving around from place to place to place because our show is very real. It's all shot south of the ten, downtown. It's on location. And there are times where we want to get alts for jokes and stuff, and a writer will just tuck in by Issa or Molly and off camera, feeding jokes to the actor and it's like they're saying ‘em and they're like, “Oh I got one.” Natasha Rothwell, someone who’s so natural, you can just be like, “We want a joke somewhere in this area,” and she's like, “Okay, got it.” And then she’ll go on and just, just deliver alts and alts and alts,
James Powell: Wow.
Amy Aniobi: Those kind of moments are just when you're like, “What I do is magic, this is so cool.”