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HBO Online Exclusive Interview with Frank Pugliese
HBO
What was the genesis of this for you? How did you come to the project?
FRANK PUGLIESE
Well, I had met with John. He had this story idea about an up and coming boxer, coming out of the boroughs, and he was looking for someone to work on it with him. He'd done a couple drafts. So I met with him at a coffee shop, this was like four or five years ago. We started talking about it, and I said, yeah, I'd love to see what we could come up with. So we just started working on a script.
HBO
How many drafts did you and John do?
FRANK PUGLIESE
A lot of drafts because it was a collaborative situation. I mean, it was always kind of like John's story, so I was always trying to serve John's story. He was always very clear about who this guy was, and the journey he wanted that character to take. So, it was a lot of give and take on the project, even co-writing some stuff, especially dialogue, you know, draft after draft after draft.
HBO
So this was inspired by John's life story, in a sense?
FRANK PUGLIESE
Yeah...
HBO
How did that factor in terms of your trying to create a work of fiction out of something based, in part, on fact?
FRANK PUGLIESE
Well, the part that I really liked about it, that drew me to it, was the idea that it was about a really, really talented person from the boroughs of New York, and essentially, being a celebrity in the Manhattan night life causes more damage than any loss in the ring can cause him, you know?
So there was a real sort of existential element to it that I really liked, because I know people in the city who come out of the boroughs and they're just fantastic, but... in a way, no matter how talented they are in their individual fields, sometimes they're not equipped to handle the glitz and, you know, Page Six and all the stuff that happens in the city that kind of can take you out. So, that's the part of it that I was really interested in.
And again it was kind of based on John's experiences, so it was just really trying to shape it around that, make sure every scene was as strong as it could be to help him tell that story.
HBO
You've written a lot of urban, gritty street tales, tales of the boroughs. Tell us a little about your roots and where you come out of and how that has fed your writing?
FRANK PUGLIESE
Well, I grew up in a neighborhood called Grave's End, out near Coney Island in Brooklyn. I came from a very artistic and well-read family that had been dropped into a very, you know... working class neighborhood where there was a lot of fighting and a lot of violence. So, in a weird way, I kind of embraced that contradiction and carry it. It's part of who I am. I fell into this neighborhood where there was, like, a fight every day. So, I guess I end up writing about that all the time.
HBO
I was asking John about boxing movies, about the tradition of boxing stories in film. I'm curious about your take on the subject: why do you think audiences continue to be fascinated by these kind of stories?
FRANK PUGLIESE
Well, there's the simple fascination of two men, and now two women, in a ring, and who comes out on top is just simple and clear and fascinating. But, on a metaphoric level, everything that happens around boxing, which is sort of like stepping into the ring; the training, the strategy, in a strange way, I mean, if you're boxing instead of brawling, boxing is very... intellectual, in a sense, but you could extend the metaphor that... all your strategy, all your ideas, all your plans... you have to kind of let go of them when you step in the ring.
And then it's just unknown, you know. I mean when you hit someone, or someone hits you, it's over. It's just... you have to let it go, in a way, it, it's almost unconscious, so I think people just are amazed by that.
I mean, you have that feeling, you know. To be able to take a punch and be able to throw a punch means you've got to go into some unknown place that, you know, you've got to let it all go.
And I think artists are attracted to it, in that sense, like writers and actors, because some of the greatest acting is... that same thing, where you step into a scene and you just let it go, and whatever happens, happens. And you take a shot, and you give a shot, you know; so it kind of correlates.
HBO
One thing that always fascinates me, I'm wondering if you see this at all with boxing. There's a certain sense of the crowds' expectation that, ultimately, these modern-day gladiators will fall. And that in a sense, there's a vicarious thrill of watching the trajectory of a prizefighter, similar to the way any celebrity might rise and fall, and how people love to see that.
FRANK PUGLIESE
Absolutely. I think what you just said is right on the money. I mean, the parallel is there, which is that... the thing about boxing, and the big boxers is that we're all complicit in the mythology behind the boxer.
We all help mythologize that figure, and then, at a certain point, we also kind of want that person to come back to earth. And it's interesting, also, in boxing, where you'll see it happen a lot, where a boxer's sort of mythologized, then they lose, and then you want them to recover. But not as mythological as they once were.
So, it's this kind of journey that every boxer takes, and in a weird way, celebrities take it, too, you know, we lift them up, they crash, and then we want them to come back. And it seems to keep happening over and over again.
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