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		Interview with John Herzfeld (John Herzfeld is executive producer of "Point of Origin." As writer/director, his films include, "2 Days In the Valley" and "Fifteen Minutes." He spoke with HBO from Los Angeles.) HBO What attracted you to "Point Of Origin"? JOHN HERZFELD I guess it's eight or nine years ago, a friend of mine who works as an arson investigator at the Los Angeles Fire Department, whom I had met when he had become Technical Advisor on a movie I'd done, named Mike Camello, called me and asked me if I could come down to the police academy for a very private, confidential meeting with himself and a federal Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent. He wouldn't tell me what it was about, and said it was very important and could I please come down. So I went and meet him and an A.T.F. agent by the name of Mike Matossa, both of whom are portrayed in our movie. At that time, we had one of these very strange conversations in the back room of the police academy, where essentially they said "John, we are looking for a criminal who is actually an arsonist who we believe is responsible for four homicides as well as millions and millions of dollars in destruction of property in Southern California, going back for the last fifteen years. And we need help in catching him." And I said "Who is he?" and they wouldn't tell me, and I said "Why me?" and they said "Because we believe you could be helpful in apprehending him. But first we need you to tell us, will you cooperate?" And I said, "Well, I'm a director, I don't know how, how can I help you?" I actually thought the suspect was someone in the movie industry, at which point they said "No, it's no one in your industry, but he knows who you are." And I said "Who is he?" and they said "We can't tell you, we just want to know if you'll cooperate," at which point I said, "I don't really know what it is you want me to do", and they said "Well, let's go talk to the D.A., and he'll tell you more, but you must agree that you will not mention anything that was said to you now, or in that room down at the D.A.'s office. This is a strictly confidential meeting. And I said, uh, "Okay". We went down to the D.A.'s office, where I was told by a Department of Justice attorney, in essence, that they suspected one of their own who had seen the movie I did on the fire department, which had fire scenes, and they asked if I would go undercover, and wear a wire, because they thought that he had written a book detailing his exploits, and if they could get a hold of a copy of that book, they think it would help their case. At which point, I said I needed to think about it overnight. I didn't know what exactly was involved, and they said, you know "All we need you to do is go meet him and pretend that you're looking for a property for another movie, and maybe he'll give you the book." And I thought "Well, where am I going to run into him?" And they said "You'll be at a bar in Glendale where he hangs out, you'll accidentally bump into him." Which I thought was kind of a contrived idea, but I considered it overnight. I went back the next day, at which point, they said to me "Okay, so you'll go undercover, you'll wear this wire, you'll appear in court." I said "Whoa, whoa, what are you talking about here? You want me to be like an informer, that kind of thing?" And I immediately was out. I said, "because one, that's not the business I'm in. Two, you know, I'd like to help any way I could, but frankly if anyone in my position ever did something like that, no one in my community would ever trust you again if you worked for them." But most importantly, I just felt the idea wasn't sound. I said to them "Why don't you try and get a Fire Marshal? They're on the sets all the time. Have the Fire Marshal cozy up to the guy, and say that he just sold his rights to a project he had written to a big producer" and I said "You know, maybe he'd just be envious and say hey, can you get my book to them?" And that's kind of how it went. I didn't participate, I just had a couple of meetings, but when the story did unfold and come to a conclusion, I then asked both agents who I'd come to know if I could get the rights to their story and do it as a movie. And that's how it came about. HBO Very, very interesting. JOHN HERZFELD Yeah, these are the facts as detailed in Joseph Wambaugh's new book, 'Fire Lover', a novel that recently came out. It's a non-fiction account of John Orr (the arson investigator portrayed by Ray Liotta in "Point of Origin"), and he also points out in the book my involvement, and how eventually I get the rights to the story, and how the movie all came to be as well. HBO So once you decided to develop the project, presumably you secured the story rights to- JOHN HERZFELD We didn't pay a nickel to John Orr. We secured the rights of the investigators that caught him, Mike Matossa, the ATF agent. Matossa is played by Colm Feore. Mike Camello actually plays himself in the movie, as does Glenn LeSerro plays a small role as himself, Glenn LeSerro being the other. Basically, three of them were very active in this investigation, Mike Matossa being the lead investigator. HBO So once you've secured the story rights to the various fire investigators who were involved, how did things proceed from an Executive Producer standpoint? JOHN HERZFELD Well, the investigators I had developed a rapport with, and as a matter of fact, Mike Camello has a small part in the film as mentioned. So I got to know Mike pretty well. I kept in touch with him over the years as the story progressed, the real life case, until the case was completely adjudicated. And I just stayed on them and got their rights, said to the guys "Hey, you know, I want to do this", and was very happy when HBO decided on making it. HBO So at that point you brought in writers? JOHN HERZFELD Matthew Tabak came in. He wasn't the only writer. I did some work on the script, as did John Bokenkamp. HBO In terms of John Orr's character, the audience is presented with a very complex, disturbing character. JOHN HERZFELD He's Dr. Jekyll, Mister Hyde. It's one of the strangest - if you made this up, it's not believable. HBO And yet... JOHN HERZFELD It's true. HBO How much poetic license did you and the writers take in the development of the story? JOHN HERZFELD Well, you know, you have a story that takes place over almost fourteen years. So you have to collapse some events. I don't think we impugned the story. But, for example, John Orr had been married many times, and he had many, many affairs. Now, we couldn't do all the affairs in the movie, so we had to cut it down to make our point as well as we could. However, we had the Mike Matossa, Mike Camello, and Glenn LeSerro on hand to keep our hand straight so to speak. They were the advisers and gave input on the script and scenes as we went to try and keep us honest. HBO Were you concerned about an audience not being able to identify with a character like John Orr, or even like him? JOHN HERZFELD Well, I think it frankly would have been dishonest and disingenuous to make a character who is really likable, sweet, nice, affable, man, who then turns out to be something completely different than that. He was, by the accounts of those who knew him, funny at some point, but arrogant, he was open about some of his affairs. He kept himself very close to the vest, he was quiet, withdrawn, he was a lot of what Ray Liotta is in the film. So none of us felt we should make him, for the sake of the movie, this bright, upbeat character, because the switch would be even more compelling to watch, but again it would have been dishonest, so we tried to make a character, and create one that is closer to the fabric of the truth rather than to impugn the integrity of the story by making it just cool for the movies sake, if that makes sense. HBO Absolutely. One last question: as a director, do you see the crime genre, today, moving away from stories that portray violence in a sort of glib, affectless way, moving toward stories like "Point of Origin," which have more genuine moral consequences? JOHN HERZFELD It's funny you're bringing this up, or maybe you're doing it intentionally, which is an excellent question. I've felt too often in films that there is no cause and effect, someone gets shot twenty times and then they're fine, you know, two scenes later. They pop up and, and no one's hurt by violence. I decided in "Fifteen Minutes" to show that when you get stabbed or shot, there are consequences to pay, so it's not cool, and look what I did, I killed Robert DeNiro at the end of the second act. You know, it was a shock to many people, but I felt that I wanted to show that there is consequence, you know? And to that end, I killed my leading man. You know the movie probably would have made a lot more money if I kept him alive, but in that story, I wanted to remain true to the story I was telling. Philosophically, I think every movie is different, and some movies, the tone of the movie, it depends upon what it is ultimately you're saying. Is it pure entertainment? Do you have a message? Is there a point you want to make? All movies are different. Each one defines itself. HBO That's all the time we have. Thank you, again, John Herzfeld. JOHN HERZFELD You're welcome. (END JOHN HERZFELD INTERVIEW)		Ray Liotta John Leguizamo Newton Thomas Sigel John Herzfeld


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