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Interview with Tom Wilkinson
HBO
Why did you want to be a part of this production, Tom?
TOM WILKINSON
You read an awful lot of scripts. I've read quite a few in the last few months. And this was the best. And the prospect of working with Jessica was a tremendous enticement. And Jane's work I knew a little bit of, and I liked it, and so I thought it was going to work out all right.
HBO
What did you think, when you first read the script?
TOM WILKINSON
Well, it was only afterwards that I realized that it had been a play. One of the characteristics of plays that are made into films is that they can be very talky. And I didn't really spot that.
But I just thought it was a wonderful journey for me to go on as an actor, you know, from this kind of regular Midwestern guy to somebody who makes this kind of life changing and courageous decision. I thought that would be interesting to follow that through.
HBO
Can you briefly discuss the title of the film and how it relates to the story, the irony of it?
TOM WILKINSON
Well, I suppose the movie asks questions, what is normal, and what isn't. I remember somebody interviewed me and she thought that normal was an actual place. Because there is a place around here called Normal. And she thought it was the name of the town that we lived in. So, there is a certain ambiguity in the title. But I think it's to do with how you get to be normal, what is normal, is normal desirable?
HBO
Tell us a little bit about the story.
TOM WILKINSON
Well, it's a very simple story, really, it's just complicated in the ramifications. But basically the first scene of the story is this man announcing that he is in the wrong body and he wants to have an operation to change his sex.
And then you can imagine, this is just a regular family. They're not a liberal, tremendously well-educated sort of family. They're just regular people. And the story charts the effects this has basically on the family, and especially the wife. Jessica Lange's role. How they come to some sort of accommodation of this. Because he isn't going to change his mind.
HBO
The setting of this film is kind of a huge contrast to the subject matter. How are you able to juxtapose the innocence and simplicity of the town with such an extreme situation?
TOM WILKINSON
That's an interesting question. I think that I kind of referred to it earlier on when I said it was a courageous decision. Because it's not something the film deals with in any great detail. But I would imagine that in a place like this, not only would the effect upon your family be huge, but also the response in the community at large would be very vivid to say the least.
I think that merely emphasizes the sort of tremendous courage that it's taken to make this decision, and not turn back despite the objections of especially his wife and his son.
HBO
Can you tell us about Roy?
TOM WILKINSON
He is a guy who has, to all intents and purposes, done his duty as a father and a husband throughout the majority of his life, and it's when he gets to be the age that he is, which, he's over fifty, he finally admits that he's been uncomfortable the whole of his life.
Now, in fact, it's more than that. He's been in agony all of his life because he has felt that he has been in the wrong body. Now, I feel that that's not just something that's to do with taste or a sort of cultural desire. It must be an agonizing physical feeling to have that sense of disorientation and discomfort.
And so, finally, it's like an itch that you can't scratch, or however much you scratch it won't go away. Finally he has the courage, and it's a compulsion I imagine, he is compelled to finally come into the open and say, look, this has got to happen and I have to have this done otherwise I'll kill myself.
That's what is given about the character of Roy at the beginning of the story, and you just sort of read on from there. It kind of, it gets a little bit worse, and then it starts to get better.
I was asked, do you want to kind of research into the transgender phenomenon. And I said, no, I don't, I want to come to it as sort of innocently as Roy does in a way. Because you know, this isn't Paris, this isn't Amsterdam. He isn't able to go to clubs where he can meet people. He knows little about it.
So, I wanted to retain that sort of sense of innocence and discover it myself in a way that perhaps Roy does. But as far as what you have to start with is not a strikingly original sort of character. I mean, he is just a regular guy, and insofar as you play a regular guy, because you never do, because if you are an actor, what interests you is what is special about that person.
You know, he wouldn't stand out in a crowd in DeKalb, Illinois. He wears checked shirts and all those kind of things that you associate in a certain sense with this part of the world. That's the interesting bit of it for me at least.
HBO
Were there any aspects of Roy that you could particularly relate to?
TOM WILKINSON
His courage and his desire to keep his family together. What he doesn't want to do is leave town, which I think if it happened to me, and I lived in a place like this, and I had to do this, I would leave town, I would go to somewhere completely fresh, where people didn't know me.
But of course, he is at the age where it's difficult to get other jobs, so there's all kinds of economic reasons why he has to stay put. But I admire that, that courage and that determination. And I admire his sense of family, and the way in which he wants to hold it together.
You could see that he would say, well, this will necessitate me to make a complete break with my family, because I'll actually turn into somebody else. So I'll do that. But in a kind of unconscious way, in an unthoughtout way he wants to retain his family. Which, I suppose, is what the motor of the story is.
Because what it's really about, one of the central gestures of the story is, is what armor Jessica Lange's character has to go through in order to make this accommodation. And it is not easy for her. That's for sure.
HBO
Tom, what did you most enjoy about playing Roy?
TOM WILKINSON
Well, I haven't finished it yet. But here is somebody who, because of the state that he is in, and the kind of emotional place that he is terribly emotional; he cries at the drop of a hat.
And I'm not, it's not something I've associated with myself in the twenty, thirty years or so that I've been an actor. But I've found that that's been quite easy to summon up. And that's been a big discovery, I think.
Maybe it's just getting older and that you're not, you don't have any kind of sense of being foolish when you are acting. When you're younger you don't want to look a fool simply, so you don't do things that might make you vulnerable. But I think that getting in touch with Roy's vulnerability has been enjoyable. Oddly.
HBO
So far, what is the most challenging aspect of getting into this character?
TOM WILKINSON
Do you want me to say dressing up as a woman? [LAUGHS] Is that what you want me to say? Because that hasn't been. I mean, I've enjoyed that, I've enjoyed all that sort of, you realize that you've been observing women all your life. Because, you know, I have to learn to, because he wants to. He has been - the character Roy - has been suppressing his urge to be a woman all his life.
So, presumably, he has observed them, and mentally kind of rehearsed being one. And I haven't done that, but I find that when I get into my dress, I enjoy being a girl. I enjoyed that. That wasn't challenging. It was a challenge which I was happy to accept.
HBO
What was it like to have this kind of role?
TOM WILKINSON
It's great, you have a great opportunity to do a lot of things. And one of the characteristics of a lot of the scripts that one reads as an actor is that they're rather monotonous to play. They don't really engage you at every level, the kind of level that you think you can do, or you think that will stretch you.
Most stuff you can do standing on your head. So, when you get something like this script it's, you know, it's fun.
HBO
What kind of message do you think this film makes about marriage, sexuality, family?
TOM WILKINSON
If there is a message, and I'm not sure there is, it shows that the family is a very resilient organization. And I think also, once again, it's a theme I've returned to is that this is a courageous decision that this guy makes, and it sort of underlines the importance of courage, however socially unacceptable is seems to be.
If you have something that you know is important to you and vital to you, not important, vital to you, then this will perhaps help people understand the importance of confronting it and being brave about it.
HBO
Why do you think these issues surrounding gender identity incite such strong reactions?
TOM WILKINSON
Well, basically because the vision of this room is confined to the family, what you have is the question that, as it appears before Irma, Jessica's character. And that is, you know, suddenly, well, your husband announces to you one day that he's going to have some important bits of his body cut off. [LAUGHS] And stuff is going to change.
Well, I mean, it doesn't get bigger than that, does it? I mean, it's a huge thing for her. And her position can't be, oh that's cool. You know, you can do that, this is not the nineteenth century. You can be what you want to be. You know, nice and sexy stuff.
She can't say that. She said, I married a husband, I married a guy. I don't want to be with a woman. If I had wanted to be with a woman I would have done that. So, you know, that's why it's not instantly acceptable to the family.
And I think for the son, Wayne, I think it is unthinkable to him that people would want to do this. And to a certain extent, you know, the idea of self-mutilation, which is what this is at the very least, is anathema to most people. But, you know, it's vital to him.
HBO
Did you personally learn anything knew about your own attitudes towards gender and sexuality and marriage?
TOM WILKINSON
I don't know, I believe I'm happily married, and I believe I can understand his decision to want to preserve his family life. I learned when I think about the prospect of this, this operation, it makes me wince. It makes me wince a bit. And it's just something I think is so against anything that I would ever do that it makes it even more kind of astounding that Roy decides to do this. And that's a great thing to be able to know and to play.
HBO
How would you describe the relationship between Roy and Irma. What kind of love story is it?
TOM WILKINSON
It is a love story, yes, you're right. They've had a marriage of twenty-five years, which, I suppose, has had its ups and downs and ins and outs and stuff like that. And they've come to some sort of accommodation of each other in the time that they've been together. And then suddenly, out of a clear blue sky something radically changes. And they love each other. There is no question about this. But this pushes Irma to the very edge.
One of the questions I doubt will be asked of me, does this couple live happily ever after? And the answer to that, I know what the director thinks. And my answer is, I don't know. There is no question, the end of the story, they love each other. But whether they can continue living with each other, I'm not so sure.
Jane thinks, yes, they do live happily ever after. Well, I don't know. You know, and I think it's, that's a nicely ambiguous aspect of the ending. In my view.
Here is the question that is directly asked of Irma. What is it you love about Roy?
You've all seen these documentaries about the soldiers who have gone to war and had some terrible thing happen to them, and they come back horribly mutilated, and they are unrecognizable as the person that went. Now, what happens? Does the wife fail to recognize them? No, of course, they continue to love them and nurture them. I think, in ninety percent of cases, if it's a happy marriage.
So the question that is asked of Irma is, what is it you love about your husband? Do you love his maleness? Or do you love something else about him. Is it his center, his soul you might say. Well, that's the question that she is asked. And how she answers that is at the center of her character.
HBO
What was it like working with Jessica?
TOM WILKINSON
Well, she is a tremendous, tremendous - I mean you don't get to have, what, six, seven Oscar nominations, of which she has one two, am I right? Without being stupendously good at what you do. I find her awesome to work with, just wonderful. I'm privileged to have worked with her.
HBO
What was it like seeing yourself dressed in female attire the first time?
TOM WILKINSON
Now he comes to it, eh? It is the first time I've ever been in a dress. And it's terrible, well, it's first of all, you kind of, you look at it, and you think, who do I look like? There is a moment of recognition. And it's not quite, and it's, who do I look like? And you think, I got it after, you know, looking at a photograph of me, and I thought, it's my mother. I look like my mother.
That same kind of disapproving look that I had on my face in the photograph so reminded me of my mother. It's enjoyable. I mean, very often, you know, when you're an actor you don't really know what you have to do until you see what you look like.
I once did a role which I couldn't rehearse in my street clothes, I had to have the character's costume on before I could rehearse it. I just couldn't think as the character unless I looked like him, or I knew that I looked like him.
It's remarkable, I would recommend it to everybody, every now and again you just put a dress on, see what it feels like, because it's, its interesting. A whole complex series of thoughts and feelings assail you as you look at yourself.
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