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Interview with Jessica Lange
HBO
Why did you want to be a part of this production?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, I thought that the situation of the story and what the character experiences in these couple of hours, from an actor's point of view, allowed great discovery. It's a big emotional arc that this character goes through. And it's a story about the heart. And that's what really interests me more and more, the investigation of the human heart.
And I thought that this was important in that way; that you could take a character kind of from A to Z. And it's not an emotional crisis that we are really familiar with. How, at a certain age, death becomes familiar to you - or a loss becomes familiar - the tragedies that are more commonplace in life. This, I thought, really was an interesting situation for a character - an interesting experience for a character to live through.
So as an actor it lets me do the whole spectrum. And not just dramatically, but what I liked about it was that there was a certain amount of humor in there. So it allows you to do that kind of an offbeat comedy in a way.
HBO
What did you think, when you first read the script?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, I thought it was very well-written. I thought it was a very unusual parable. I mean, that's how I have always seen it - as a parable. Because in truth, it could be anything. I mean, it really is kind of the "beauty and the beast" myth.
To me, that's what I felt we were talking about - is, can you see to the heart, you know? Can you go past the external, and actually see to the heart of somebody? Whether you are talking about disfigurement, or illness, or disease, or insanity, or whatever.
And, in this case - can you see to the heart of that person? And can you then accept that person? So I really did feel that it's a parable for many, many things in life. And touching in an area to me has become a great area of learning - an important lesson. And that's in there. The whole area of compassion, and having compassion for another human being.
HBO
Can you tell us a little bit about the storyline?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, you have a couple, you know? I always imagine, that this was a girl, who grew up in a small town. And was very popular, maybe homecoming queen. Had gone on to college. Met a boy there that she fell in love with. And it was everything that was expected of her, and everything that she expected from her life; that she would marry this man, that they would have two children, they would live a - you know, a lovely life.
And she was and is throughout this story, very, very, very, very much in love with him. I mean, it is, after all, a love story. And they are married 25 years. She is perfectly content with her life.
And at a very early point in the film she suddenly, she becomes aware, that this man believes that he is not what he is supposed to be; that he is a woman trapped in a man's body, and - for these last 25 years - he has been living this lie, and trying to, um - you know, trying to get by somehow because of his commitment, his responsibilities - his love for her, his love for his children, his commitment to the community, to the church, and all of these things.
And at some point, for some reason, he decides that he cannot do it any longer; that it's a terrible lie. And that now, he is at a point in his life, where he has decided, that he will go ahead and change his whole being; change his sex.
And then, it is a study of a marriage, and what happens when the two people start this journey together - where they start, where they end up.
HBO
What kind of marriage would you say they have going on?
JESSICA LANGE
I think it's very loving. I think they are each other's best friends. I think they are good parents. I think they have a commitment, again, to community, and to church. They are very upright citizens. She believes she knows her place, which is at home - in the home. She takes care of things. She supports him, in everything that he wants to do. And bears his children, takes care of the home. And it - well, it seems to me that they have what they want. She has what she wants.
HBO
The setting of this film is in such contrast to the subject matter. As an actress, what was the challenge of dealing with the conservatism of the town, and the event that goes on in the film?
JESSICA LANGE
I think to some degree the reason it is set here is because people have a kind of a preconceived idea of the Midwest, or the Heartland; that these people are less sophisticated than people who would be in a more cosmopolitan area, like New York, or San Francisco, or Los Angeles.
And by placing it here, it makes it kind of jump out more. The public will assume that it's a community that doesn't know how to deal with a situation like this, you know? Whereas, in truth, I believe it's - all individual. So by setting it here, you have a kind of a natural milieu that is perhaps perceived as more innocent, than other places.
HBO
Tell us about Irma.
JESSICA LANGE
Well, she has a tremendous capacity for love. And against all expectations, she also has tremendous forgiveness, and compassion, and understanding, which of course, are all offshoots of the capacity for love.
I mean, that - to me - is always the most interesting thing about a character, is - when it's written so that the audience, or the reader assumes that they know who the person is. And then, little by little, what you reveal to them is something - much more complex than they ever anticipated.
As an actor, that becomes what's interesting about playing a character; how many layers of the onion can you peel to get to the heart of it. A lot of it is on the page, and a lot of it has been discovery. And working with an actor like Tom, has been great, because we have - right from the beginning - kind of an unspoken dialogue, where we have actually been able to work together - very smoothly, and very completely, right from the very first scene.
HBO
What was the most challenging aspect of her?
JESSICA LANGE
You know, it's that thing of trying to track and keep very close to scrutinize very closely, how you get from one beat to the next. In a way, it's like all those studies that they did of death. How do you approach that - and what are the stages you go through? First, it's denial, then rage, then grief, then acceptance. Don't quote me on those, as being absolute.
But, this character experiences that same kind of thing - because there is that terrible anguish of trying to - let it set, you know? To be to be conscious of it. And then the terrible anger. And then the denial of it. And then - finally - some kind of acceptance of it. You have to make sure - I have to make sure that I - I investigate fully, each of those responses. And keep it truthful.
HBO
How do you think women will relate to your character, what she is going through?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, again, I mean, I think you have to kind of see it as a parable of - of many other things. It's a very human journey. So I don't know, you know? I am always a little reluctant to say, "This is male, this is female. This is feminine, this is masculine." To me, it's all in the area of humanity - the human heart.
HBO
At one point, the entire family is embraced. How does Irma hold it together, or - or does she hold it?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, as in most families - and especially in families where there is some crises going on - to my experience, it is the role of the mother, to try to make everything all right for everyone. And I - I think, to some degree, you know Irma has to go beyond her own reaction, to make sure that everybody else will come through this all right.
And it's the natural state of motherhood, which is unselfishness. The idea that, when you become a mother, you are no longer the center of your own universe. You relinquish that position, to other people - mostly, to your children.
And I think in the case of Irma, she had already given that to her husband. I know - not from experience - but I do know, there are some women [LAUGHTER] who do make their husbands, the center of their universe. So, from hearsay, I assume, that Irma is one of those women.
HBO
[LAUGHTER] Great. What kind of message or statement do you think this film makes about marriage, family, and sexuality?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, marriage, as in partnership. Marriage as in two people who love each other, who are each other's best friends, who care, and will stick together through whatever comes along. That is a very powerful, positive statement, I think.
Family. Family is inescapable - no matter what kind of family you come from, no matter how dysfunctional, how loving, how wrought with grief, or whatever you want to add - I mean, that is the most powerful entity on earth, I think.
Families survive, one way or another. You have a tie, a connection that exists long after death, through many lifetimes.
HBO
Issues surrounding gender, identity - why do you think it incites such strong reactions from people?
JESSICA LANGE
I have to admit, I didn't think much about it before this, to tell you the truth. I mean, it seemed like the most natural thing in the world, you know? People have different identities. It never seemed odd to me. This is nature. Of course, it's going to exist with humans. I mean, there is the idea of transgendering. Now that gets into an area that is so foreign to most people. And, yeah, I mean, it is. It - it is a strange and bizarre phenomenon of nature.
And just like any kind of great natural upheaval, I think it's difficult to comprehend. Perhaps now it's becoming somewhat more acceptable. Maybe not acceptable. Maybe - more commonplace. But probably - still - not acceptable. I mean, all you have to do is look at the attitude of some of these church doctrines, and the religious right, you know?
HBO
Have you met any people who are transsexuals - or people who have kind of gone through a similar situation as your character?
JESSICA LANGE
I've known transsexuals. I don't know anybody who is in the same kind of situation that my character is in. And actually, when I wanted to do this - I thought about researching it, and actually sitting down and talking to a woman who would have experienced this.
And then I decided against it, because I felt that my choices would somehow make more sense for me, as this character - than if I would try to impose on my character someone else's reaction.
So I wanted it to have a rawness, and a kind of an unexpected quality to the choices that I made. So I decided to really just do it as though it would be happening to Irma, to my character, who obviously would never have researched this, before her husband told her. [LAUGHTER]
HBO
What did you personally learn about your own attitudes about sexuality and gender?
JESSICA LANGE
That it's just as complex as I ever suspected it to be. I mean, there are no explanations, there are no answers. That you can't tidy it up, and sum it up, and simplify it. And that the real mistake is trying to simplify it.
HBO
You talked a little about working with Tom. What makes him right for this role?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, first of all, it's surprising, because he is very, very, very manly. So that it becomes surprising, and kind of shocking. And that he is so smart as an actor that he sees through things - very quickly. And understands the heart of the scene. He understands the key moment. He understands the line that everything turns off of. So, I mean, it's wonderful - it's wonderful in that way that he is so smart, such a smart actor.
HBO
What was it like, seeing him dressed as a woman, for the first time?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, it's pretty scary. It's pretty fucking scary. [LAUGHTER]
HBO
[LAUGHTER]
JESSICA LANGE
He is not a pretty woman. [LAUGHTER]
HBO
[LAUGHTER] He is a manly woman.
JESSICA LANGE
He is a manly woman. He is a good, sturdy woman.
HBO
Mm-hmm. What do you hope people who watch this film will take away from it all?
JESSICA LANGE
The need in this world for compassion, and understanding, and tolerance. Tolerance, I mean, probably above all. And the kind of diversity. Allow the diversity to exist. There is nothing wrong with it. Hell, we put up with the religious right - we can put up with transgendered human beings.
HBO
Mm-hmm. Talk a little bit about, uh, working with Jane Anderson, the director.
JESSICA LANGE
Well, because obviously this is a great area of interest and passion, she knows this material. She knows how she feels about it. She loves these characters - which is a big thing. And to work with a director that has that kind of emotional commitment and passion toward the characters, and the piece, and the experiences, and the arc of the story - it only enriches your work and the work of the whole.
HBO
How do you balance, marriage, kids and work, first-hand?
JESSICA LANGE
Poorly. I do it - very poorly. It's very hard for me because I am tortured when I am away from my family, from my children. I am horribly guilt-ridden. And then, when I am home for like a two-year stretch, I - I get antsy, because I want to work - because I want to do what I love doing - acting.
So I find it a very difficult balancing act. And I know there was that feminist myth that, one time, that "we can do everything." I don't think you can.
HBO
What do you love about being a woman?
JESSICA LANGE
[LAUGHTER] Well, oh, God. Oh. Well, that's a pretty big question.
HBO
Yes, it is.
JESSICA LANGE
I love being a mother. I loved being a daughter, a sister, you know - a wife. All the different relationships you have, as a woman. And I love men. I love - I love being around men. I love being a woman with men. I love having given birth. What can I say? I love, as a woman, how open your heart is. And your appreciation of beauty. I mean, that's a pretty big subject to cover. [LAUGHTER]
HBO
Yes, it is. A whole other film.
JESSICA LANGE
Yes, it is. [LAUGHTER]
HBO
What makes this film unique, and suitable for HBO?
JESSICA LANGE
Well, it's a subject matter that is, obviously not commercial. It's not a formulaic story - a formulaic film. It is an investigation of something that's quite unique. It's probably a film that maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, wouldn't have been made. Feature films have become extremely limited in their scope. And therefore, it's great that HBO will go out on a limb for stories like this.
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