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Mick Jackson (Director)
Robert Wiener (Former CNN Senior Producer)
Ingrid Formanek (CNN Senior Producer)
Bernard Shaw (Former CNN Principal Anchor)
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(Bernard Shaw was one of three CNN reporters who broadcast continuous coverage of the first night of the Allied Forces' bombing of Baghdad during Operation Desert Storm.)
BERNARD SHAW
The secret to successfully having gathered, written and reported news is getting the story out. Network television is a very simple three words: logistics, logistics, logistics. On the hot end of CNN's Gulf War coverage in Baghdad was Robert Wiener. On the cooler end was Eason Jordan in Atlanta. Eason alone was responsible for generating and responding to more than five thousand telexes, not to mention the telephone conversations and the face-to-face visits with Iraqi officials.
As we strove to get equipment we needed into Baghdad, there were some things they would never allow. They would never allow a modem to be brought in by anyone. These were snatched from you in customs as you cleared customs because they did not want the people to have the ability to disseminate information or to receive information.
Another thing, when we took in flak jackets, they would be taken from us, because they were afraid that they would fall into the hands of whomever. But that was the key to our success. We had the equipment, then, of course ultimately, more importantly, we had the right people on the ground. And obviously we had the story.
HBO
Describe your emotions interviewing Saddam. Obviously you are a consummate professional, but when that guy walks in the door...
BERNARD SHAW
Intentionally, I'm never overwhelmed by any newsmaker I interview, and I try not to be overwhelmed by the story. The more intense or the hotter the story, the more I ratchet down my emotions or my reaction. Why? Simply to be able to stay on top of it so that I can report dispassionately and I can observe critically. With Saddam Hussein, a man whose reputation, in my judgment, is thoroughly negative, given his history, having gassed his people, given his invasion of Kuwait, given his effort to develop weapons of mass destructive, all this.
I'm waiting to interview this man. He walks into this heavily guarded mansion, and what struck me about him was the reaction to him by his general officer corps staff. These guys were at such rigid attention, they looked like totem poles, with their hands locked to their thighs, not because they were feeling themselves, because this was the way to control their trembling hands.
And they were leaning like that at such rigid attention and they followed him around the room as he seated himself and their eyes just spoke of raw fear. I imagine that this was the way Hitler's staff reacted.
I wasn't intimidated. I had worked four or five days waiting for the interview, I had worked on my questions, I knew what I was going to ask, and my job was very simple: do I like the man? Personally, no. Am I impressed? No. My personal feelings were irrelevant.
My job was to ask questions that somehow would get him to express himself, his reaction to those questions, to open up his mind so that viewers and readers and listeners could make a judgment about who this demon was.
HBO
Yeah.
BERNARD SHAW
That was my job. And I knew that if I had not done that, I would have failed. And I was in Baghdad not to fail, but to find out how this man's mind worked, to the extent that he would share it with us, and moreover, what was on this man's mind.
HBO
Did you think you might die when you were there?
BERNARD SHAW
I knew I could die at any moment of my presence in that capital city. First of all, when the war broke out, I had been there, waiting for an interview with Saddam Hussein because the Iraqis had called CNN and they said they want Bernard Shaw to come back to Baghdad to interview our president.
I was just there the prior October. So Baghdad was not new to me. But once the war broke out, I knew that the likelihood of getting the interview had diminished. And Peter Arnett, about ten days later, did the interview with Saddam Hussein, but when war came, I became trapped. And in war, one moment you're alive, the next moment you're dead.
Plus the Al-Rasheed Hotel was on the United States bombing list. But the Americans and the other coalition partners had other targets to deal with in the initial hours of the war. Colin Powell, the (then) chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as well as (former) President Bush, both were concerned about my presence, because of a personal friendship. The president went to the extent of calling CNN president Tom Johnson and saying `get your people out of there'.
HBO
Wow. But CNN stayed.
BERNARD SHAW
Yep.
HBO
That's unbelievable. Was CNN reluctant to send you? Were they nervous you may not come back or you may get stuck there?
BERNARD SHAW
There were very intense discussions about my going to Baghdad, but you have to remember, first and foremost, I'm a journalist. I might sit in the studio reading news copy, but my passions flow best and most in the field where the story is.
And I had been to Iraq in October of 1990 to interview Saddam Hussein. So the decision was, he goes. I wanted to go, but yet I was reluctant, because I knew I literally was walking into the jaws of Hell, potentially. Because I didn't expect that he would get his troops out of Kuwait. Obviously he didn't and the war came. So was there concern. Was there fear? Yes. But also it was a sense of dedication, and some of my friends from CNN were there. I felt a duty to do my part to help our coverage.
HBO
Is this the right time for this film, and if so, why?
BERNARD SHAW
I was a history major in college. What's tragically sad about life in Baghdad and HBO's fine producing of the story... what's tragically sad is that story is not over.
HBO
Yeah.
BERNARD SHAW
Saddam Hussein still holds power in Baghdad, Iraq. Saddam Hussein is still a threat to the region. Saddam Hussein has not been corralled. There's still trouble in the Middle East. This film could not get any timelier.
HBO
Why HBO?
BERNARD SHAW
My impression is that in doing Live from Baghdad, HBO is being true to character. These folks have always struck me, going back years, as people with a seriousness of purpose and a dedication to integrity and storyline.
When you look at what was done on Lyndon Baines Johnson, when you look at what was done on Harry Truman... very impressive work. Dedication to detail, and they have great integrity. I'm surprised HBO hadn't done this movie before, given their pedigree, given their record. And I happen to think that they're right on the mark with this movie.
HBO
Any final thoughts about the fact that this film is being made, the fact that you were part of that moment in history?
BERNARD SHAW
In so many instances journalists are observers of the first phases of history, and we certainly are recorders of history's first blush. And while you are aware that more than a billion people were following the coverage, and that now what we did has been enshrined on film, I'm not ga-ga over that.
What I am impressed by is that the men and women in this cast, in this company, have worked so hard to produce this product, and it is true to fact. It has integrity. But I'm afraid HBO will have to do this again, because this story is not over.
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