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HBO: This is your second film (the first being the
Oscar®-winning Chernobyl Heart) related to
the disaster at Chernobyl. What brought you
to this subject in the first place?
Maryann De Leo: I like to say it was the road I'm meant to walk,
because I had two people tell me about a
photo exhibit at the UN about Chernobyl.
That was, I think, in 2000. I had no intention
of seeing this exhibit, but when the second
person pushed me to go, I went. And I was
shocked and horrified at what I saw. Because
I hadn't thought about Chernobyl or what
happened there in many years. And then
doors started opening. I contacted an
organization that had put together the photo
show. And they just happened to be going to
Chernobyl and the director of that
organization, Amy Roach, invited me to go.
And I went to HBO thinking that it was at the
bottom of my list of ideas, thinking that (head
of HBO Documentary Films) Sheila Nevins
would never be interested. And when I told
her the idea she said "yeah, what ever
happened over there? Go see what
happened." And that began the adventure.
HBO: What was it about the images that struck
you?
Maryann De Leo: I think I had put away what happened over
there. But when I saw the pictures of kids
with deformities, and seeing the devastation of
the people there - the evacuation, people
moving their homes; it's just a no-man's land,
now - it kind of overwhelmed me. I wasn't
prepared to see this.
HBO: Why did you approach Maryann about collaborating on the film?
Christophe Bisson: Maryann and I met in 2006 in a conference on Chernobyl in Budapest. She had a screening of her film Chernobyl heart and I had an exhibition
of my photographic wall "you will be given one minute" related to the Chernobyl liquidators. I was struck by her film even if her approach of
the catastrophe was the opposite of mine. She chose to show the horror of Chernobyl through deformed children that she filmed in a confronting way. In my photographs I referred to the Chernobyl catastrophe through
disappearing traces and blurred images. In a way we represent two extremes I went to her and I told her that we should make a film on
Pripyat. It was more or less a joke at that time. One year latter we made that film. I think White Horse has the print of our both personalities: we feel close to the character and at the same time there is a distance made of silence.
HBO: Where did you meet Maxim (the subject of
White Horse), and what inspired you to make
a film about him?
Maryann De Leo: I met Maxim at a film festival where Chernobyl
Heart was screening. Most of the other
filmmakers who watched the film either didn't
comment on it or said they didn't believe it.
There was only one person, who didn't speak
English, but came to the table where I was
having lunch and said, in Russian (which I
had translated) "Your film was the truth.
Thank you for making it." And that was
Maxim Surkov, who was also a filmmaker.
And it happened that while I was on my way
to Kiev, Maxim was on the same train and we
ended up riding together in the same car of
the train all night. And through an
interpreter, we kinda got to know each other.
And Maxim said two things that I remember:
one was that someday we should make a
movie together about Prypiat, which is the city
where he was from. And the other was that
he didn't believe he would live long.
He was a young man when I met him. He was
probably thirty. And I went to Kiev and didn't
see Maxim most of that trip. I was writing an
article for Discover Magazine, and I went with
a group of former residents of Prypiat. They
made this journey back to see the places they
had lived. And on that trip was also
Christophe Bisson who had wanted to go on
this trip with them and had invited me to go.
Christophe said that he wanted to make a film
about Prypiat. He's a painter who hadn't made
any films at that time. And so we decided to
make this film together and I asked Maxim if
he wanted to take me to Prypiat. At the time,
he didn't think he could ever go back there.
And then he decided to go back with me and
Christophe. And so that's sort of the way it
started.
Christophe Bisson: We didn't know much about him when we went to Pripyat, his hometown, with him. His story revealed itself on the way. We just had the general frame: a guy who was evacuated from Pripyat is going back there twenty years after. We did not have a script and we did not know what would happen. I think this is the strengh of the film: nothing was planed and yet something essential happened. It is rare and precious! Jacques Lacan said " reality is what one does not expect".
HBO: What struck you when you arrived in Pripyat?
Maryann De Leo: When the day started off Maxim was very
funny. He was making jokes and decided that
on the trip he would film all the bridges. So
every time we came across a little bridge, he
would get out and film it. He didn't seem
nervous about going back until we got into his
courtyard. And then he just kind of sat there
and couldn't move. The rest of the trip was
very mixed. There were parts where Maxim
was happy seeing, and other times he became
very quiet and couldn't speak. And at the end
of the trip, we went to have lunch and he went
outside, sat on a bench, and I went and sat
with him. And it was clear he was devastated.
He felt like he wasn't happy in his life. He had
lost so many people. And he thought it was
all from radiation. He pretty much couldn't
speak the rest of the day. I think it was very,
very emotional for him. And I don't think I
was prepared for that. I knew it would
probably elicit different memories from him.
But I didn't think about how devastated he
could be from that trip.
HBO: Through your work on Chernobyl Heart and
now White Horse, what have you discovered
about these kinds of horrific accidents in
terms of how they impact a person?
Maryann De Leo: In Pripyat, I was unaware at the time I made
Chernobyl Heart of just the kind of community
this city was. Its population was around
forty-eight thousand, sixteen-thousand of
which were kids. Now just imagine a small
town in the United States that one day gets
evacuated and there's never anybody going
back there again. It will be like that for
thousands and thousands of years. It's really
eerie and very unsettling that you could have
this accident and then everyone's life would be
changed forever. I didn't quite grasp that
when I did the first Chernobyl film, about the
evacuation, about the lives of children.
Maxim was ten years old at the time of
accident. He was taken out of his home and
his life basically fell apart after that. His
mother died from cancer, and other relatives
died. And in his mind (whether it's true or not
we don't know for sure) he believes it was
from the radiation. And I don't think he could
ever really move on from that. I think he
kinda got stuck in that place. And as far as we know, from his wife, he did
die. He suffered some kind of heart seizure,
and he died last year. And he was only thirty-two.
So, I think we'll never know the far-reaching
effects of the accident, because people were
dispersed all over the Soviet Union, and they
haven't kept records, and it's very hard to say
what's from radiation and what's not. We
know that thyroid cancer is directly related,
but there are other cancers there, and there's
just no way to know. And being uprooted and
just having the psychological mindset that
you've been exposed to this radiation and that
it will have devastating effects on your health
is quite traumatizing.
HBO: This was your first film, Christophe. What did you learn in making it?
Christophe Bisson: I am so glad that Maryann trusted me. I learned a lot from her. It was great and unique experience to work with her. The process was very difficult. We knew we had something in the footage but it was hard to
agree on the right form. Our vision of the film was different and we don't have the same sensibility. But we found the right form beyond our differences. I really believe that we did something together that exists between us.
HBO: There are no easy answers, no happy ending
in this film, only your observation of Maxim.
Is that your preferred style of storytelling?
Maryann De Leo: I guess I feel like what people take away from the film is their business. But it's a person's life. It's a story that many people wouldn't have known about, that there was this city, and it was called Pripyat, and it was the most modern city in the Soviet Union. And almost fifty-thousand people were living there and one day all that changed. And just to be aware that these things have happened in the world, and to think about our own lives, our own memories, our own childhoods. That's what matters to me.
Christophe Bisson: People are free to think what they want of the film. There is no
intentional meaning already thought. I just hope that people will share this journey. Nevertheless, I think the Chernobyl zone gives a right image of a possible future of our world. With Chernobyl what we thought that was
impossible became possible. This is the most pessimistic part of my thought. I also think like Holderlin, "where the danger is there is also
what will save us."
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