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HBO: You've dedicated your life to helping animals.
Where did that commitment come from?
Ingrid Newkirk: I'm... very moved when I see an animal
suffering, and I do see it. I do understand it, I
think, in part because of the dog I grew up
with who was very close to me. He was like a
brother. We went everywhere together and did
everything together and I often slept in his
dog basket. So I could see, early on, the
expressions of his joy, of his sadness, of his
worries and I think I just picked up on that
and carried it with me, so that if animals are
in trouble, it's very easy for me to read their
facial expressions, to read their posture. And
it does matter a great deal to me. I can't stand
suffering, I just can't abide it. I want to do
something to stop it.
I think that animals are the most vulnerable
of all victims, because not being human they
are so easy to dismiss. It is the ultimate
prejudice, really. Even if you are being rude or
hurting somebody of another race or religion,
there's something that pulls most people up
short, because they realize they're human
beings. But if you don't even have that going
for you, then it's very easy to be treated like
dirt, like an inanimate object.
So, the more I learned about animals, not just
rescuing dogs, but about the hidden places
where they suffer: inside laboratories and on
the fur ranches, in factory farms, behind the
tent at the circus-places people usually don't
visit-then the more it became clear to me
that I really wanted other people to know
what I had found out, because so many
people want to be kind to animals. So it's just
a driving force in my life to be that annoying
little messenger who says, "Guess what?
Here's what's going on."
HBO: What has been your guiding philosophy at
PETA these last twenty-seven years?
Ingrid Newkirk: The guiding philosophy is that silence is a
social cause's worst enemy. And whatever you
have to do to break that silence and bring the
topic into the arena of public discussion, you
must try to do. If I were to do it most
comfortably, it would simply be in discussion,
but that's not how the world works. I can say
something and almost no one would pay any
attention, but if a celebrity says something,
our culture is such that the world stops,
whether you like that celebrity or not, you
listen.
I've learned over a period of years, especially
as the media has become more demanding of
titillation-it wants sex, it wants sound
bites-to try to render our message into
something less intellectual, if you will, really
more packaged and ready to go. Whether you
make fun of us, or you find us gimmicky and
silly, the job that we have to do is to put this
issue out before the public, and have people
discuss it, argue about it, because, again, we
can't have silence.
It sunk in right then and there that if ever we
were going to have any kind of break through
getting to know each other better, this was the
time because he would be in Florida, and
something about being surrounded by our
memories aided the discussion. And he just
seemed to want to talk.
I remember I asked him very off-handedly if
he missed mom, and he said, no. It wasn't a
loving association, it was a functioning
association. And I was stunned. And I look
back on that as the moment when, if I had
been thinking at all about making a film, that
was the moment where it occurred to me, this
is going to be bigger than just about our
family.
HBO: Your campaigns often make people very
uncomfortable? Is that your intention?
Ingrid Newkirk: Well, it angers them because it's so much
easier to think about something that's
happening in a faraway place. The problem is
that we have to penetrate this barrier that
people have put up, where they say, Don't
show me, I like my steak. I don't want to look
at that. Or, I'm too sensitive to look at that.
They're not too sensitive to carry on
supporting that cruelty, it's just they're too
sensitive to see the cruelty, because they
know then that they would have to change
what they're doing. So it's really about
honesty.
HBO: You famously said, "When it comes to feelings
like hunger or thirst, pain, joy-a rat is a pig
is a dog is a boy."
Ingrid Newkirk: Because that's a biological fact; we may not
want to face it, but if you take a cigarette and
you burn a mouse, that mouse is going to
suffer as much as if I take that cigarette and
burn my own arm. It's a little mammal. I'm a
slightly larger mammal, but the nerves and
the pain, everything is the same. And when
you see animals jump for joy, uh, they're just
full of life and delight. Or, if they lose
somebody they love and they grieve, they
pine. All the animals do that, it's not just
elephants and dolphins. They're emotional
creatures. And so, when it comes to feelings, a
dog is a rat is a pig is a boy. It's an
inconvenient fact and one that we keep trying
to pretend isn't true so that we can carry on
doing things that hurt them, but we won't feel
guilty about it.
HBO: What are some of the things you're most
proud of that PETA has done?
Ingrid Newkirk: Well, one of the things I'm most pleased about
is we have started another part of our
organization called PETA 2 for teens through
twenty-one years olds. Those young people
are learning now about what they can do to
help animals.
HBO: You also plan to give parts of your body away
when you die, is that true?
Ingrid Newkirk: Well, what good do I have for my body when
I'm dead? I had a very bad experience on an
aircraft once where we all thought we were
going to die. So I started to think, Well, that
would mean the end of my activism, which
means so much to me. I want to get as much
done as I can before I die. And I suddenly
thought, Well hang on a minute, maybe I
could donate bits of my body to be used in
stunts after I've gone, so I would have a little
bit more 'life,' if you'll pardon the expression,
to my campaigning. I started to list all the bits
of my body and found uses for many of them.
I found a pathologist who's willing to do the
deed. And I researched all the laws in the
different states. And so, it's in my will.
HBO: What do you hope audiences will take away
from the movie?
Ingrid Newkirk: I hope that it will open some eyes and people
will see why it is important to care about
animals and feel sympathetic to them, and
know that The Golden Rule applies to animals
as well as humans. And perhaps, by seeing
some part of this film they'll decide that
they're going to make, even little, changes in
their habits. Perhaps not go to the animal
circus. Perhaps have a vegetarian day once a
week, or reject the fur lining in their gloves.
They'll do something-and they'll tell other
people about it, so that those people can do
something, too.
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