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Pathouse: What do you think about the depictions of Ethel Rosenberg and Roy Cohn in Tony Kushner's play and the recent HBO mini-series "Angels in America"?
Ivy: I really love what Kushner did with the characters of both Roy Cohn and my grandmother. It is thrilling to see the ghost of Ethel haunting Cohn as he dies, I must admit I enjoyed watching him squirm. BUT, I also loved the empathy Kushner imbued my grandmother with, that despite their history and his role in her death, she could still see Cohn as a human being who suffered. That's why when she says Kaddish over his body and then says "you son of a bitch" it captures the entire complexity of their relationship in one powerful scene. Since I was attempting to humanize my grandparents in my film, I admire what Kushner accomplished.
rhomzie: David Greenglass, to me, was always the true villian of this case, and I wonder why you have not exposed him to the world. I've always wondered that if he had no guilt or shame over his behavior, why he felt it was necessary to live his life out under an assumed name. You certainly are a better person than I am, for if I was in your place I would rip away his disguise and force him to walk in the cold light of day.
Ivy: When I began making the film I wasn't sure how I would deal with David Greenglass. I too have focused on him as the main villain in this story but as I learned more about him and the pressure he was under I began to feel that he was also somewhat of a victim and that none of us know how we would handle being faced with such terrible choices. I still feel that what he did can never be justified and wish, as I say in the film that he would show some remorse. That said, I decided not to expose him because that's not the kind of film I wanted to make. It would've become all about him and he's only one part of the story I was choosing to tell. Also, his own family doesn't deserve to be exposed and so I only went so far as to show his house, the 60 minutes footage, and testimonies from other subjects to tell the story. I did write the Greenglasses a letter asking if they would agree to meet me and/or be interviewed for the film and they never responded. Ultimately, the film is my way of exposing him and more importantly, our government and how dangerous it can be when it's allowed to wield too much power in hysterical times.
Sonicsatori: As a descendant of Russian Jewish immigrants, I must ask you, if you feel, in some way, the atrocity that was bestowed upon your family (as it was a miscarriage of justice for the nation as well as far as I'm concerned) parallels the rise of anti-semitism in the world at large, especially within the United Nations? Also, is there a foundation, which you are a part, or a way in which we can contribute to this cause, meaning, raising the consciousness of people in this country? If there is please let me know.
Ivy: I think that anti-semitism certainly played a significant role in the trial and executions of my grandparents. As for the current state of anti-semitism in the U.N. I'm not in a position to comment on that since I don't really understand the issue today in it's international scope. However, keep an eye out for my producer Marc Levin's new film, "The Protocals of the Elders of Zion" which will look at this very question.
My uncle Robby Meeropol has a foundation that might be of interest to you in that it helps the children of political people. The website is http://www.rfc.org. There are also great organizations that deal with keeping a check on our justice system, namely The Center for Constitutional Rights.
Tm1003: Have you taken any heat for your documentary from right-wingers who believe the government does no wrong and that to suggest it does is unpatriotic and/or traitorous?
Ivy: I have taken some heat from right-wingers but I haven't been reading much of it to date. I know that on the web people are saying some vicious things but I'm choosing to ignore it! The New York Post and the Washington Times both took me to task for not just admitting that my grandparents were fanatics who created their own fate. This is predictable stuff. It would be interesting to see if people are going so far as to say that I'm unpatriotic for bringing the story to light but I haven't seen any of that. I will say that the most unpatriotic position is from those who think I shouldn't talk about it at all.
Kriegsjagdhund: When you visited the cemetery it appeared to be obvious that you had never been to the grave before. Was that really the first time you had ever been there? What was the deal with the stones you placed on the grave marker?
Ivy: Actually, I had visited the grave once, many years before but had no idea where it was since the cemetery is enormous. I truly didn't know where I was going and the map they gave me only helped me find the general area they were buried in. As for the stones, it's an ancient Jewish tradition where people would mark gravesites with a small pile of stones. Each visitor would add to that pile to insure that the marker would remain. Now, even with permanent headstones to mark graves, we still place a small stone on the grave to indicate that someone has visited.
rosedavid: What are your current views on the death and the afterlife? I myself have gone on a search to find details of my grandmother's life and feel your pain in trying to connect with family members. I'm sure you felt as I do that despite the fact that you never met Ethel there is some sense of a bond and of having known her in a way. I am quite sure that your grandmother is smiling down with pride at what you and her son have accomplished under the most horrid circumstances.
Ivy: Yes, it was a frustrating experience trying to connect with unwilling family members. But despite that, I do feel a much greater bond with my grandparents than I did before making the film. Every little detail that I learned about them made them all the more real for me. And you are correct to point out that the bond is much stronger with my grandmother. At difficult times while making the film I did feel their presence and was reassured with a very strong sensation that they would be proud of what I was doing.
From cohosier: My question is in regards to your bio, which says you worked for a Congressman earlier in your career. I am curious, how someone so damaged by an overzealous government would choose such a path. Can you elaborate on your choice to enter politics and the government arena and your choice to leave it?
Ivy: When I graduated from college I wanted to be a writer but I also had a very strong impulse to get involved in our political process and help improve people's lives. In my young mind, I wasn't convinced that my short stories were "important" enough. So I moved to Washington DC and found a job working for a wonderful Congressman from Florida, a liberal Democrat whom I admired and felt honored to work for. I dealt with issues I cared about, such as education, children, welfare, immigration, civil rights, etc. Though I certainly have great disdain for those who abused their power during my grandparents' trial and execution (Eisenhower, Hoover, Kaufman and more) I do not feel that all is hopeless with our system of government. In fact, I feel a responsibility to make sure that our government is not taken over by those who are not worthy of leading us. As someone who is keenly aware of what people like Ashcroft and Bush are doing to destroy American values, I cannot help but participate in the process that will remove them.
markl34140: Have you been to the park and memorial to your grandparents in Havana? It is a beautiful, tranquil place. A triangle of serenity in the busy Vedado district.
Ivy: Yes, I've been to the monument in Havana and it is a beautiful tribute to them. My brother, my cousin Rachel and I went there together and laid a wreath of flowers. As far as I know, it's the only public monument in the world to them.
woland55: Setting aside the question of whether the Rosenbergs were guilty of espionage or not, I wonder why the documentary never questioned any of the Rosenberg's associates about their feelings about Stalin. So how could people so full of "love" and "humanity" have supported a regime with the blood of millions of people on its hands?
Ivy: Please refer to my father's answer to this question for a more in-depth response. I will say that my decision not to include a challenge to my grandparents friends on their support of the Soviet Union during the end of World War II had everything to do with the story I was choosing to deal with here. There are many questions that I had to leave out, all-important, but not all-important to the film I was making. It's a perfectly valid question, why did intelligent, humanitarian pro-Soviet Americans not know how horrible Stalin was? Well, my grandparents were killed before I could ask them and what I wanted to know from their friends who've survived all of these years were what kind of people were they?
What kind of parents were they? What I discovered is that they believed at the time that the Soviet Union offered a better way of life. They were wrong, it didn't turn out that way. But my job in making this film was not to condemn them for their political views then, but instead to uncover what kind of people they were so I could understand the decision they made when faced with execution. This is about my family and what I know now has convinced me that, myopic though they may have been, they would've never had such hope in the Soviet model if they knew the monster Stalin was.
Snazie18: I think your grandparents died for what they both believed in. But what I still don't understand is how could they leave their boys like that? What I want to know from you Ivy is in making this documentary on your grandparents, has it changed you personally in any way? And how has it touched you as their Granddaughter?
Ivy: Thank you for your kind comments! You've asked how my grandparents could leave their two boys and that is precisely the question that drives the film. You've answered it partially yourself by saying that "they died for what they believed in". The rest of it is what I came to understand in making the film is that I believe they died knowing it was the only true and great legacy they COULD leave for my father and uncle. If they had named names (unfathomable to them) and spent years in prison, what kind of legacy would that have been for my father and uncle? They had great faith, and they were right, that to be true to themselves in the face of such a terrible choice, was the only thing they could do for their children.
carol4: The big question for me has always been Ethel. After watching it the second time, I could really focus on her. Do you think she was a woman, like many women of her day, who lived her husband's life and was an extension of him?
Ivy: While I don't believe my grandmother had anything to do with what Julius was accused of doing (note that even our government's own documentation in the Venona papers states that she did not have a codename and didn't work for the Soviets) I am as certain that she was as political a person as my grandfather was. IF he was involved in anything, I'm sure she knew about it and supported him, but not in the blind, "yes dear" way of a typical fifties housewife. Of course this is mainly conjecture, though I found from meeting friends and relatives of my grandparents that she was as knowledgeable and opinionated about the state of the world as any of the men in their community. Even before she met my grandfather, she was a union activist who helped organize a strike and was fired for it.
terr5: You never mentioned Roy Cohn though...the evil incarnate. He murdered Ethel. I think you should have done a presentation of his part in this. He was so instrumental in murdering, yes murdering your innocent grandmother.
Ivy: Yes, absolutely, Roy Cohn is a major villain in the story of my grandparents and I agree with you that his actions were instrumental in the executions of my grandparents. He was a vicious, ruthless man. I considered making room in the film to get into the characters of Cohn, Saypol (the chief prosecutor) and Judge Kaufman but my focus was on Julius and Ethel, their friends and my father and uncle. I also chose to demonstrate the tenor of the time period through archival footage and appearances by Hoover, McCarthy and Nixon rather than being too specific about the key players. That said if I could have found a perfect Roy Cohn piece of footage I would've relished using it.
I highly recommend watching Tony Kushner's "Angels in America", another HBO production, for a chilling depiction of Cohn. You'll also get to see Meryl Streep playing my grandmother who haunts Cohn as he's dying in the hospital.
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