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HBO: Take us back to the beginning. How did you
both come to make this film?
Ricki Stern: Annie and I learned about Darryl's case from
a friend who was a private investigator who'd
been doing research for the defense. And at
the time, in 1993, Darryl had already been
convicted twice in two trials. The investigator
had called us up and said, listen, I think this
guy, Darryl Hunt, is wrongly convicted and if
you come down with a camera crew and shed
some media attention, I think it might help
us, and maybe we'll get a new trial.
So we were intrigued by this and drove down
with a camera, and lived in North Carolina for
a couple of weeks at the Motel 6, and just
immersed ourselves in this ongoing drama. It
had already been nine years since Deborah
Sykes had been murdered. It had been eight
years since Darryl Hunt had been convicted.
So there was already a back story when we
started filming.
HBO: When did you realize that Darryl had been
wrongfully convicted?
Annie Sundberg: I think when we first went down we tried to
have a fairly neutral approach to the case.
We knew we'd been called by people who were
looking to shed light that might help the
defense gain some traction in winning a new
trial. But I think it was this unbelievable
commitment and belief by Darryl's defense
attorney, Mark Rabil and the entire defense
community led by Larry Little, that really
convinced us of Darryl's innocence. And
obviously, when the DNA evidence excluded
Darryl from the crime we knew definitively
that he was innocent.
HBO: And yet that didn't free him.
Ricki Stern: Well, in many ways, our process of making
this movie paralleled on a more minor level,
the defense's journey to freeing Darryl Hunt.
Every time they thought Darryl may be getting
out of prison, we got our hopes up and we
went and filmed that period. When the DNA
evidence was discovered, and then came back
and it was indeed not Darryl Hunt's DNA
found in the semen sample found inside this
dead woman, Deborah Sykes, and then going
to a hearing - all these steps along the way we
thought Darryl was going to be vindicated and
at the very least, given a third trial. So it was
quite shocking when that didn't happen. It
was pretty remarkable.
At the beginning, we found ourselves very
much aligned to the defense because they
gave us access. At first I think emotionally I
was very swayed by both sides. They were
both very convincing, both great attorneys
and that was their job - to convince you that
what they're telling you is the truth. And I
was totally gullible and believed it.
And then people asked us about Darryl. We
filmed Darryl in prison a couple of times
through the years but we didn't have that
much access to him. And we didn't really
know him. We kept hearing that people just
found Darryl to be an amazing person who
they felt could never have done this horrible
crime - just not his personality.
But that wasn't really the thing that
convinced us. I think it was much more
looking at the facts of the case and reading
the trial transcripts, the thousands of pages,
and really looking at it and going, you know,
there are some very big questions that need to
be answered.
HBO: What do you think it says about human
beings and the judicial system that in the face
of such overwhelming evidence, people could
continue to want to keep Darryl locked up?
Ricki Stern: I think one of the things we learned making
this film is that there is a psychology of belief
that happens within human beings. I mean,
you're raised in a culture where you're told
that the sky is blue and this is how things
are. And for many people in Winston-Salem,
not only did they need to feel that Darryl was
guilty in order to believe that their community
was safe, but they believed what the
prosecution had put forward.
It's very difficult to shake belief systems,
which is why I think Larry Little's comment
that racism being illogical, is the combination
of an emotional need to believe certain things
coupled with the way we set up systems for
ourselves to believe in.
Darryl has always spoken in hope that the
victim's mother would have some peace in the
end. Because he feels that she, like him, was
very much a victim of the way this case was
prosecuted because she, for many, many
years, was told that Darryl was guilty. And so
for her now to wrap her head around the fact
that Darryl isn't has been a very, very difficult
process.
HBO:
And throughout all of it Darryl refuses to cop
a plea, refused to compromise his position
about his innocence.
Annie Sundberg: I think when Darryl refused to take the plea
bargain, that more than anything is a
testimony to his character. He is that person
who believes so firmly that to take a plea is
the ultimate form of injustice, both for himself
and for anybody who is really searching for
the truth in this case. And, again, it's one of
the reasons why I think Darryl is a really
incredible man and very inspiring. I know we
were inspired as filmmakers working with
him.
Ricki Stern: Darryl is the most steadfast person. When we
interviewed him in 1994, when he thought he
was going to get out of prison then, he just
wanted to do one thing. He wanted to go back
to his community and give back to them. He
wanted to make a difference and help the
people who had helped him. Well, cut to ten
years later - so now it's been twenty years in
prison - he gets out of prison and that's
exactly what he does. He goes back to his
community. He doesn't leave to find a new
life elsewhere. He goes back to face the same
police and the same prosecutors every day.
His office building sits in the middle of the
block between the courthouse and the police
department. And he sees these people every
day and he now runs a foundation to help
other people like himself who are getting out
of prison and are wrongfully convicted. So,
it's really amazing.
HBO: Race played a major role in Darryl's case,
didn't it?
Ricki Stern: Well, definitely the community and the city of
Winston-Salem would say that this case
polarized the black and the white community.
Blacks, in general, felt that Darryl Hunt was a
rush to justice, that he was wrongly accused
and wrongly convicted. Whites, in general,
felt they had the right black man and were
happy with the results. People ask us all the
time, was Winston-Salem this really racist
community? And I think it's just like any
other city in the United States. I mean overt
or covert, racism exists everywhere. People
have misgivings about other ethnicities and in
Darryl's case there - Yeah, so I think that race
played a part in his case. For example,
Darryl's attorney, Mark Rabil, who is white,
spent many years in the North Carolina
criminal justice system, and in the courts
often heard the N word from people in the
court system - whether it be police or other
people on the side of the law.
The sense of playing on racial stereotypes and
fear of the black man, that was there. That
was in this trial and it's pretty overt. It wasn't
as overt for us. But I also think that we had
access in a way that had we been black
filmmakers, we wouldn't have had.
Annie Sundberg: I think what was really clear for us was that
Darryl was seen by many people in the system
as expendable. And they felt they could solve
a community's concern by effectively
prosecuting and they really never wanted to
question their case because they really felt
they were doing the community a service.
It's horrible. Whites can't see blacks in the
same way, and blacks can't see differences in
whites in the same way. We don't know how
to read each other. I'm hopeful that in
generations to come we will have more of that
ability.
HBO: What do you think the lessons are from this
story?
Ricki Stern: I think on a practical level, we hope the film
can inspire criminal justice reform - that
people in the justice system who get tired of
the work they do can look at this and say, you
know what? This film tracks twenty years of a
criminal justice case. And look, there are
things that can be done to make the system
work better. And when it doesn't work
people's lives are destroyed and not only
someone who is wrongly convicted but then
the real guy goes free. And the real guy in
this case went on to rape and hurt many
other people. And then of course the victim's
family really hasn't had justice if the wrong
person is put away. So I hope that it inspires
more talk and possible action for criminal
justice reform as well as a look at the death
penalty, because had Darryl been put to
death, we would never have made this movie.
So I hope it raises questions about that.
Annie Sundberg: For me the film is a testimony to love and
commitment, because in many ways it's a film
about the criminal justice system. It's a film
about race and class, but it's also about how
belief can really keep people going; belief in
what's positive about humanity. The fact that
Darryl's defense team stood by him
unequivocally, that a community stood
behind Darryl for so many years - I don't
think you can ever discount the power of what
that ultimately gave to Darryl in his ability to
be as whole as he is now. And my hope in
terms of larger lessons is that people who
might not feel as generous necessarily to
others can look at the humanity of Darryl's
experience, and ultimately look beyond race
and class lines.
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