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HBO: Where did you first meet Ron Holiday, and
how did the film come about?
Harris Fishman: My younger brother, Adam, has worked and
lived with exotic animals for quite some time.
He was just starting his training at a place
called Amazing Exotics in Florida, which is
where a lot of the film takes place, and is also
where Ron went to heal after the tragedies. I
remember it was a hot summer day in L.A.,
and my mom called and said, you know that
place where your brother is? Well, he's with
this man who is grieving from some amazing
tragedies. I've heard a little bit about his life,
and I think it would make a great
documentary. And that was the beginning of
what became a seven-year journey to finish
the film.
HBO: In many ways, Ron and Joy Holiday and their
love affair with fellow Cat Dancer, Chuck Lizza
seems to defy how we as a society define love.
Harris Fishman: Well, that was one of the things that was so
unique about their story. So often people need
to put people in a box and label them. But
with Ron you couldn't do that. On the surface
he's like an effeminate man, so he must be
gay, right? But Ron didn't want to have
anything to do with that. He was like, No, I'm
not gay actually, I'm bisexual. That's who I
am. I was intrigued and excited about the
fact that here was a man who lived and
marched to the beat of his own drum, who
happened to have fallen in love with two
different people. So it does challenge people
about judging others, and about being
different.
HBO: In the 7 years it took to document this story,
when did you realize you had a movie?
Harris Fishman: That's interesting because there were a couple
moments like where Ron is in the classroom,
talking to his students. We shot that
scene, and I thought to myself, oh my God,
there's something dynamic going on here. The other discovery was when Ron
gave me a box of old 8-millimeter movie reels.
I spent months cleaning those spools and
looking at them, and thinking these could be
really dreamy and haunting. So there were
definitely inspiring moments along the way
where I felt like we had a film.
HBO: What do you hope audiences take away from
the movie?
Harris Fishman: I think different people will take away
different things. I hope people who believe we
should not be exploiting animals in captivity
think that, well, if anyone did it well, it was
Ron and Joy and Chuck. They did it with
enormous amounts of integrity and dignity.
And I hope it makes people look beneath the
surface and not judge others superficially.
And also for people to think, wow, what an
amazing, dynamic life this man led!
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